Far too many, and far too soon!

[SirChick]

There seems to be far too many games that are no different other than theme.

Half the browser based game owners i see on this site, don't seem to know how to code PHP to save their life only how to edit scripts of an engine (this does not make you a programmer in any shape of form)...i just don't understand the mentality of many game owners wanting to own a game NOW NOW NOW instead of learning how to code. Every game i try to make (albeit only 2 i made public) was from a blank php script and i find it easier to make a game from scratch than learning a game engine. Given PHP evolves and improves, an engine is soon out dated and inefficient.

I can bet 99% of PHP browser based game owners don't have a clue how to make a PHP game from scratch, and if you do, then why didn't you do it ? Ask your self this, can you do the following things without a pre-made engine:

A sign up page, a register page, basic security & input validation checks? How to connect to your database in PHP, how to set up error reporting system ? How to use cookies and sessions? A mail box system? A basic stats incrementer (like a gym).

These are very fundamental PHP game functions that cover most things that would be using arrays, functions, classes, if statements and loops.

Then there is MYSQL, do you know without even looking how to join two tables on a commonly shared id, and what do you do if two fields from both tables have the same name and you need to get one of them in the SELECT, do you know the difference between a left join and an inner join ? Is it more efficient to do a count(field) as total for a boolean check or a mysql_num_rows() function call. If you do not know even one of these things i mention you no where near ready to make/run a game. Yet time and time again people fork out cash on servers upload an engine fiddle with the settings, change the name and CSS and W00 im a game owner and im a programmer. JUST STOP!

Patience is how you get there, too many jump straight into running a game before learning this stuff. If you ever wanted to evolve to learn OOP programming, well you just won't get there if you do it this way. (Assuming you ever want to make graphical games and not browser based).

I've been embarking on my first graphical game, its taken me 2 years, but I'm learning browser technology that is still being tested, there is very little documentation, its hard as hell, but thats how you learn to master these things. I could dissect an engine and learn one (if there was one) but that does not assume its the right way to go about making the engine, there could be better ways and it depends on what you need for you're game.

/rant
:P

[HauntedDawg]

If you ever wanted to evolve to learn OOP programming, well you just won't get there if you do it this way. (Assuming you ever want to make graphical games and not browser based).

funny-pictures-kitten-shoe-loled.jpg

What does OOP (Object Orientated Programming) got to do with a "Graphical" (2d/3d) game?

[Dominion]

Half the browser based game owners i see on this site, don't seem to know how to code PHP to save their life only how to edit scripts of an engine (this does not make you a programmer in any shape of form)...i just don't understand the mentality of many game owners wanting to own a game NOW NOW NOW instead of learning how to code.

Not everyone that has started with an engine learns nothing. There are members, like illusions, that have learnt a great deal by doing this. As long as you don’t blindly copy and paste code, and try to learn what the stuff in front of you actually does it’s not a bad way to learn, and works for people.

Rushing a game out with the same old features is, in my view, just lazy.

Every game i try to make (albeit only 2 i made public) was from a blank php script and i find it easier to make a game from scratch than learning a game engine. Given PHP evolves and improves, an engine is soon out dated and inefficient.

Are you really saying you have never used anything open source? If so why not! Even when starting from scratch there are resources that make life easier. Many good frameworks for example. Or a better example using Jquery is easier for some rather then typing the JS out themselves. Still them doing something, but makes life easier.

Php changes, sure, but not enough that one release will make your entire program redundant. Early PHP5 code is still useable, and if not it is with a little update. Some languages change so much, and so quickly changing the version you are using is bad, PHP is not like that.

A sign up page, a register page, basic security & input validation checks? How to connect to your database in PHP, how to set up error reporting system ? How to use cookies and sessions? A mail box system? A basic stats incrementer (like a gym).

These are very fundamental PHP game functions that cover most things that would be using arrays, functions, classes, if statements and loops.

Just for the record yes, and if I couldn’t youtube videos and other online tutorials could get me acquainted with the basics within days.

Then there is MYSQL, do you know without even looking how to join two tables on a commonly shared id, and what do you do if two fields from both tables have the same name and you need to get one of them in the SELECT, do you know the difference between a left join and an inner join ? Is it more efficient to do a count(field) as total for a boolean check or a mysql_num_rows() function call.

All of which you could look up very easily. Take mysql_num_rows() vs count() speed, ok fine something to know, but will it make a massive difference to someone programming for a hobby? Nope. Join queries I will give you. It’s rather useful to know, and I know some people have found it confusing.

Patience is how you get there, too many jump straight into running a game before learning this stuff. If you ever wanted to evolve to learn OOP programming, well you just won't get there if you do it this way. (Assuming you ever want to make graphical games and not browser based).

If you want to “evolve” to OOP don’t use PHP. There are much better languages that implement it in a much better way. I’m not saying PHP is bad by any means, but it’s not a language I would pick for the OO based way of doing things.
For the record you could make a 2d games using procedural or OO PHP(with some other languages of course e.g. css, js etc) and if you’re trying to create something 3d? PHP is not the right language for you.

[booher]

funny-pictures-kitten-shoe-loled.jpg

What does OOP (Object Orientated Programming) got to do with a "Graphical" (2d/3d) game?

Because a lot of them are written in Object Oriented languages, and you have to understand OOP?

Idk, that's what i assume he was saying.

[HauntedDawg]

Because a lot of them are written in Object Oriented languages, and you have to understand OOP?

Idk, that's what i assume he was saying.

What i was laughing at was

well you just won't get there if you do it this way.

you can learn OOP anyway you want, not to some specific Language.

[SirChick]

It's' all well and good using open source resources, but if you couldn't figure out how to do it yourself without the help of resources, you simply haven't learn how to program properly yet. But i don't use any resources because almost none of them are optimized or as efficient as can be unless were talking very basic scripts which you should be doing yourself in the first place not googling them.

Your not a programmer if you Google snippets of code and patch them all together, its all good doing so but if you couldn't work out the logic behind how to do it yourself you should not be considering releasing game - until you learn the fundamentals.

And @Dominion i know illusions very well probably more than you lol - even he will tell you he could not make a game from a blank page. So that kinda backs up my point entirely. If he was to make a game from scratch it would be all MCCodes style which is very old code :P

[Dominion]

To be honest I totally disagree with that. Using open source things is fine. Take nbbc should I waste time creating something of my own for the same job or simply use what is freely available? I could create something similar but it's time wasting.

Of course understanding what's behind it, and how it works is important, but a lot of sites are based on a CMS for example. Do you think using CMS means you don't understand it? From what you've said I am getting that you're attacking those who simply use what's there, and don't learn. People that use engines do, most of time, learn as they improve it.

I'm simply saying this is a bad generalization to see.

[CavellA]

It's' all well and good using open source resources, but if you couldn't figure out how to do it yourself without the help of resources, you simply haven't learn how to program properly yet. But i don't use any resources because almost none of them are optimized or as efficient as can be unless were talking very basic scripts which you should be doing yourself in the first place not googling them.

Your not a programmer if you Google snippets of code and patch them all together, its all good doing so but if you couldn't work out the logic behind how to do it yourself you should not be considering releasing game - until you learn the fundamentals.

And @Dominion i know illusions very well probably more than you lol - even he will tell you he could not make a game from a blank page. So that kinda backs up my point entirely. If he was to make a game from scratch it would be all MCCodes style which is very old code :P

You have some valid points but now your are arguing more based on your opinion. Programmers SHOULD google functions and things like that, if you actually sat down and memorized every single function ANY language has ever made then you need to do the world a favor a build us flying cars or something (still waiting on this -.- hmph). Whats important is understanding how to use each function, not knowing them off the top of your head. As long as your grasp an understanding of whats going on thats all that matters.

Most people learn from an engine so while they may not be able to code now who knows where they will be 3 months from now? As far as OOP PHP, it is better for lots of reasons but even the logic behind that can be hard for some of the best programmers, everyone wouldnt agree because everyone cant sit down and actually use a class to the best of its ability. People can make database connections and things like that and thats as complex as most people can go with it but thats alright. Its all about perspective, if they dont want to sit down and really understand the logic and whats going on and how OOP makes a huge difference in your product its not looked down upon. Normal php still gets the job done.

People all have their own way of learning and their own way of programming and thats what makes the internet a fun place. Seeing these different people with different skills and different ideas. There is a huge problem if some of these people who have been using mc for years have never made a site from scratch but if they are getting profit for now by all means keep going. Some people just do it for a hobby and maybe MC is as serious as they want to go and thats also ok.

[CavellA]

To be honest I totally disagree with that. Using open source things is fine. Take nbbc should I waste time creating something of my own for the same job or simply use what is freely available? I could create something similar but it's time wasting.

Of course understanding what's behind it, and how it works is important, but a lot of sites are based on a CMS for example. Do you think using CMS means you don't understand it? From what you've said I am getting that you're attacking those who simply use what's there, and don't learn. People that use engines do, most of time, learn as they improve it.

I'm simply saying this is a bad generalization to see.

I agree with you also, but I think the point hes trying to make is there are more "programmers" who use things like those without learning than programmers who use it and improve from it.

[SirChick]

From what you've said I am getting that you're attacking those who simply use what's there, and don't learn.

This is what im referring to yes. I see it every where, even in JavaScript alot of people use jquery but could they make the same function without jquery or other library doing it for them, probably not... but they should know the understandings of it not just take it for granted. Whilst i agree if u use an engine you do learn the engine, but if you went to make you're own you'd be constantly looking at the engine you used and practically copy it because its all they know.

You should only use an engine "after" they know how to make even a basic one themselves. Because if they can't make one , how do they know which engine is best, or which one suits their needs, they could ask people but again thats relying on everyone bar their own knowledge.

I see a fair few threads not just here of users saying "i have this game i'm making but i don't know how to make a registration page".... if you don't know something that simple, why are they making a PHP game everyone wants to run before they walk.

Here is an example of what i hate about this world right now :P

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/3...nothernumb.png

Its a joke image but its very true particularly on that website.